Eagler's Nest

Engines => 3 cylinder Radial => Topic started by: PropMan on October 14, 2015, 08:28:25 AM

Title: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on October 14, 2015, 08:28:25 AM
This could be interesting if it becomes available.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on October 14, 2015, 09:26:40 AM
This could be interesting if it becomes available.

Doesn't actually "jump" until around 3:50...

https://youtu.be/e9UvOBo8vMU

Static thrust...

https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/924354647627905/

One more:

https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/968179463245423/
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Steve on October 14, 2015, 10:11:37 AM
This could be interesting if it becomes available.
https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/968179463245423/ (https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/968179463245423/)

E-Start ! ! !



Doesn't actually "jump" until around 3:50...

https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/911537352242968

Static thrust...

https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/924354647627905/

One more:

https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/968179463245423/
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on October 14, 2015, 10:21:26 AM
This could be interesting if it becomes available.

E-Start ! ! !
https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/968179463245423/ (https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/968179463245423/)

That one is on YouTube...  only 480 p however.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oep0IlURHck

Another on the Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOdhGn61j-A
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on October 14, 2015, 11:15:26 AM
Specs show approx 70lbs, thats probably w/o starter and any accessories tho.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on October 14, 2015, 01:52:23 PM
How about just 2 P&W cylinders..?

https://youtu.be/ND4EA0dnAM8
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on October 14, 2015, 02:20:13 PM
You see how it shakes around on the ground when they rev it up?? OMG That would shake an Eagle to pieces in no time!!
It also took FOUR grown men to move it out to a run up area....A bit heavy would you say??
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on October 14, 2015, 02:47:17 PM
You see how it shakes around on the ground when they rev it up??



It was meant to be a fairly obvious joke...  

I guess that's why they call it the "flying" Millyard.  He hand built it except for the P&W 1320 cylinders and SU carbs.  The guy builds bad ass motorcycles (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj4hbNBjmdvXONmcxcLSNhg), and says the one he put this motor on "shakes, but it smooths out when you ride it".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6bi7zocGRY
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on October 14, 2015, 03:45:10 PM
Here's the piston and rod from that motor...  Posted from his Twitter account (https://twitter.com/AllenMillyard) yesterday.  Yea, it's gonna shake.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CC-m__2W8AMiBK6.jpg)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCVGBm6WIAAD5CL.jpg)
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on October 14, 2015, 05:21:37 PM
Now that is a piston.:o
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: aeroplain2003 on October 14, 2015, 07:40:34 PM
Good to see the "3" hoppin. I watched for a while and it was always "in development". I'm also guessing that one can build a flying LEU for the cost of one. Still would love a small Radial!!
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on October 15, 2015, 10:00:32 AM
Good to see the "3" hoppin. I watched for a while and it was always "in development". I'm also guessing that one can build a flying LEU for the cost of one. Still would love a small Radial!!

I have been aware of it for quite some time as well.  It was 25 hp before if memory serves.  The Chinese have dumped money on Verner and they have concentrated on the radials while dropping the 2 cylinder opposed engines.  Now the max hp is up to 42 and continuous is 34.

I read somewhere that Verner claimed in an email to a questioner a price point of $5,000  without exhaust or oil tank.  If this is so, it will put a serious hurt on Hummel engine's business.

If their press is to be believed they are poised to start delivery on the 3 and 7 cylinder engines with the 5 in the pipeline.   If this is so, look out Rotax...
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on October 15, 2015, 10:08:52 AM
At 2200 to 2500 rpm a larger prop can be turned which should improve climb performance.  Maybe even a 3 blade
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: aeroplain2003 on October 15, 2015, 05:41:51 PM
Agreed. When I found HCI I got real excited also, til the sticker price of 12 grand hit me. Parts and pieces can be bought, but one needs to be a machinist. Kinda takes the "Cheap" out of Cheap flying,,,for me.
Good to see the "3" hoppin. I watched for a while and it was always "in development". I'm also guessing that one can build a flying LEU for the cost of one. Still would love a small Radial!!



I have been aware of it for quite some time as well.  It was 25 hp before if memory serves.  The Chinese have dumped money on Verner and they have concentrated on the radials while dropping the 2 cylinder opposed engines.  Now the max hp is up to 42 and continuous is 34.

I read somewhere that Verner claimed in an email to a questioner a price point of $5,000  without exhaust or oil tank.  If this is so, it will put a serious hurt on Hummel engine's business.

If their press is to be believed they are poised to start delivery on the 3 and 7 cylinder engines with the 5 in the pipeline.   If this is so, look out Rotax...
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Steve on October 15, 2015, 09:28:09 PM
I sure like the robust sound & authority of the Verner e-start coupled with the the slow turning engine a package to get some real around the patch flying done...
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Steve on October 15, 2015, 10:00:13 PM
I sure like the robust sound & authority of the Verner e-start coupled with the the slow turning engine a package to get some real around the patch flying done...

(https://www.eaglersnest.com/forum/gallery/3-151015235748.jpeg)
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Nical on October 17, 2015, 07:00:45 AM
I sure hope Vernier decides to produce this engine. It would sure look good on the front of my LX.......
 Nick L.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on October 17, 2015, 12:14:14 PM
I sure hope Vernier decides to produce this engine. It would sure look good on the front of my LX.......
 Nick L.

Nick,
Here is their contact form...  (http://www.vernermotor.com/contact.html) They invite any questions at all...

Maybe pump their US dealer below for the latest information on it..?  Let us know what you find out.

Or better yet, talk Frank Johnson into becoming a dealer so he can offer us all a discount on the prop/engine combo..(https://ssl.gstatic.com/mail/emoji/5/48px/emoji_u1f64c.png)



(https://www.eaglersnest.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vernermotor.com%2Fimages%2Fdealers%2Fusalogo.jpg&hash=4b58bf10c73ce5722015748276ba5838789daa0f) (https://www.eaglersnest.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vernermotor.com%2Fimages%2Fdealers%2Fusa.jpg&hash=e45f961e549d4eb696a598f1b0d010983b7d042a)
Richard Anton Johnson
12367 145th Ave
Menahga, MN  56464-3617
USA
Phone: +1 320 455 7363
E-mail: richardajohnson12367@gmail.com (richardajohnson12367@gmail.comt)

We Are Looking for New Dealers. For more informations please contact us on info@vernermotor.com (info@vernermotor.com)
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on October 17, 2015, 12:25:34 PM
There goes Dan letting everyone know what I'm thinking.  ;-)

Or better yet, talk Frank Johnson into becoming a dealer so he can offer us all a discount on the prop/engine combo.. 
(https://ssl.gstatic.com/mail/emoji/5/48px/emoji_u1f646.png)


(https://www.eaglersnest.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vernermotor.com%2Fimages%2Fdealers%2Fusalogo.jpg&hash=4b58bf10c73ce5722015748276ba5838789daa0f) (https://www.eaglersnest.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vernermotor.com%2Fimages%2Fdealers%2Fusa.jpg&hash=e45f961e549d4eb696a598f1b0d010983b7d042a)
Richard Anton Johnson
12367 145th Ave
Menahga, MN  56464-3617
USA
Phone: +1 320 455 7363
E-mail: richardajohnson12367@gmail.com (richardajohnson12367@gmail.comt)

We Are Looking for New Dealers. For more informations please contact us on info@vernermotor.com (info@vernermotor.com)
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on October 17, 2015, 02:33:09 PM
There goes Dan letting everyone know what I'm thinking.  ;-)


That would be some seriously good news..!

I notice the prop hub has drive pins in their drawing...  I like drive pin prop hubs.

I also noticed they have had that engine on a real dynomometer.

 I took the liberty to convert their numbers to inches...  Attached.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: scottiniowa on October 18, 2015, 08:22:04 PM
Isn't the Verner, that same company that that has offered an  engine somewhere between forever and a long time ago? 2 cylinder, opposed (boxer) Yet to see one working/flying on a aircraft at OSH-  I have always marveled at companies selling a dream, but hardly a working product. I hope I have that company confused with this one..and the two are totally unrelated.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Kevin N. on October 18, 2015, 10:27:15 PM
No thanks, I already own a paint shaker.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on November 03, 2015, 02:44:02 PM
Just ordered my Scarlett 3VW. Anyone else want one I'll be happy to help.:emoji_u1f60e:
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Nical on November 03, 2015, 03:28:40 PM
Just ordered my Scarlett 3VW. Anyone else want one I'll be happy to help.:emoji_u1f60e:



So there will be two of us in TX flying LX  radials in 2016 .  A good start! 
  Wotta class act!

  Nick L
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on November 04, 2015, 07:58:11 AM
Wonder how heavy just the HEADS are and wether they would work on our 1/2 VW's since they are using VW cylinders....
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bugsmasher on November 05, 2015, 05:09:59 PM
Seeing as this is a new engine....any squawks from testing/flying revealed? Am nearing completion of the 45 half vdub......hate temptations for another airplane to build. Only have one wife and room for one plane. I do like the big slow prop....may be a good thing to have on the nose. Sure sounds nice. Maybe Scott could cobble up a smaller , lighter 4 cylinder from scratch with a reduction setup. Pondered this for years...but would die of old age before I got far with it and testing...inspiration pic...would be 1200cc 4 cyl 4 stroke with overhead valves rather than 2 stroke. 80 lds and carry a 68 inch club.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on November 06, 2015, 10:08:39 AM
Wonder how heavy just the HEADS are and wether they would work on our 1/2 VW's since they are using VW cylinders....

I sent Verner an email and got a reply...

Quote
... Yes, the cylinders used on Scarlett 3VW are original VW cylinders. We know, that nicasil coated aluminum cylinders can save some weight, but we sacrifice this weight saving for durability which we get from original cylinders. And of course there is a price reason.
 
We use cast alluminium cylinders with cast-iron insert for our 5 and 7 cylinders. They are different to 3VW engine.
 
The cylinder head which we use weight about 2 kg for complete cylinder head (including rockers, valves etc). And about 1/2 VW, well I don’t think so, because of pushrods , oil system etc.
 
regards,
 
Paul Dvorak
Verner Motor
info@vernermotor.com
www.vernermotor.com
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: GriffWatkins on November 10, 2015, 04:44:43 AM
Just ordered my Scarlett 3VW. Anyone else want one I'll be happy to help.:emoji_u1f60e:
Would you mind giving us a hint at the price and lead time?
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on November 11, 2015, 07:57:00 AM

Would you mind giving us a hint at the price and lead time?
Price for the engine w/o starter is 5500.00, with starter is 6100.00. This includes import broker fees and shipping to the US. Price may vary with the euro exchange rate.  Delivery is around 4 weeks from receipt of funds, at this time.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: GriffWatkins on November 11, 2015, 11:45:45 AM

Would you mind giving us a hint at the price and lead time?


Price for the engine w/o starter is 5500.00, with starter is 6100.00. This includes import broker fees and shipping to the US. Price may vary with the euro exchange rate.  Delivery is around 4 weeks from receipt of funds, at this time.

Frank,
Thanks for the response.  If the engine proves to be reliable and durable, that's a pretty good price- especially considering the weight (and time!) savings compared to some of the ready-made 1/2 VWs.  Please keep us all informed about how it works out on your Eagle.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on December 03, 2015, 09:02:01 PM
Verner Sent a few photos of the engine builds. I've got good intel these two engines will be flying on a couple XLs in the Texas skies this spring.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on December 03, 2015, 09:20:18 PM
Oh MAN!!! I bet you are excited.... I am!!! I'd LOVE to get one someday!!!!
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Nical on January 05, 2016, 06:33:54 AM
Ah yes,Santa finally arrived! Instead of the usual lump of coal, he left one Scarlett 3.
LE-LX E-20 will be flying the TX skies this spring with it. More as it all develops. I know Frank Johnson is about to receive his. I am looking forward to Recklaw already!  
   Regards,
   Nick L.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on January 05, 2016, 07:14:29 AM
Ah yes,Santa finally arrived! Instead of the usual lump of coal, he left one Scarlett 3.
LE-LX E-20 will be flying the TX skies this spring with it. More as it all develops. I know Frank Johnson is about to receive his. I am looking forward to Recklaw already!  
   Regards,
   Nick L.

Nick, send pics...
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Nical on January 05, 2016, 08:37:33 AM
Once on the airframe,I will.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on January 05, 2016, 10:20:42 AM
Once on the airframe,I will.
Cool...  :emoji_u1f646:
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bugsmasher on January 05, 2016, 05:19:11 PM
OK I am nearing the airframe completion point.....and have all the goods on hand to finish my 45 horse. So what kind of thrust are these capable of ? I am almost tempted...but I want to see one fly first. If Frank doesn't mind a visit...I want to see it flying myself. I can always put the 45 on another plane I plan to build after this one....
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on January 06, 2016, 07:43:17 PM
Not sure what the thrust is yet, but we'll have at least two flying this spring. Should have testing under way by May.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on January 31, 2016, 02:21:32 PM
I think I heard a rumor of over 200# Thrust unofficially....

Motormount is under re-design and development to accept the three radial impulses....opposed to two lateral ones.. Interesting!!
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on January 31, 2016, 06:56:28 PM
Verner is going with 105 KG...  231.485 lbs

Of course this is before Frank puts his prop on it...  250..??!!

https://www.facebook.com/VernerMotor/videos/924354647627905
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on January 31, 2016, 07:10:26 PM
we shall see........
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on January 31, 2016, 07:15:25 PM
we shall see........

True.

Guess it depends on how good a prop they have on it now, but my money is on Frank...
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on February 01, 2016, 09:20:10 AM
I'd be happy with 230lbs. seems like thats what a 4cl VW makes. Hmmmm, wunder what a DE would do with 70 Less pounds on the nose and this engine Swinging a 68-70 inch prop?
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on February 06, 2016, 12:24:14 PM
Here's a photo of the Verner install on a LEXL...
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dan_ on February 06, 2016, 06:51:57 PM
It's gonna be awesome... :emoji_u1f646:
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on February 06, 2016, 08:21:53 PM
Another view.....
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: leshoman on February 06, 2016, 08:26:48 PM
Frank. This is looking impressive. Looking forward to flight photos and video
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on February 07, 2016, 12:50:31 PM
Yes. I just wish it was mine. Bob has a front row seat at the LE S3VW skunk works.
I have a few months before that stage. But there will be 2 XLs flying in Texas with the S3VW this summer!
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: sciguy on February 18, 2016, 06:35:50 AM
Another view.....

Bob,

Thanks for the picture. That little Scarlet looks great. I'm wondering it the top cylinder obstructs the view enough to be a pain in the butt. That said, I spent a good number of years flying behind a rather large P&W 1340 that made taxiing a bit interesting but became no problem once at a normal flight attitude. Can the engine be mounted with one cylinder straight down?

Thanks for playing,

Hugh




Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on February 18, 2016, 08:38:34 AM
I personnally don't think that one cylinder will be that much a distraction...

Canting the engine off to one side or the other only puts that one cylinder closer to the ground... I don't think that would be good should you go over center.....


Here's a view of the oil tank being designed and installed under the rudder pedal area....
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Tom XL-7 on March 14, 2016, 11:34:48 AM
Bob, Frank;
How does the firewall forward compare to the 1/2 vw?
Tom XL-7
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on March 14, 2016, 06:42:07 PM
If you will look at the first picture below, you will see the (lower two) holes for the motor mount are in the very corners of the 'firewall'. much further out than what you need for the better half VW (full case). Corner mounts would probably be OK for a cut-case engine too as you will have to make a similar mount for it.

In process of designing a mount that will accept the odd engine pulses so they don't vibrate the engine/ engine mount off the fuselage frame..... 

Motor for motor the weight is in favor of the S-3 Radial but weight for the oil/oil tank is the ONLY add I can see EXCEPT if you use the electric start then you will add #'s for the starter....  Will get a total weight when the mount is built....
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Bob S. on March 14, 2016, 07:03:17 PM
OK, Found other pictures:  The current engine mount is 6" long from firewall face to mounting lugs on the engine.
  Because the mass and it's distribution is a bit different between engines, The flight mount will move forward to 7 inches. This solves several problems. At this point I roughly calculate no CG changes from a 1/2 vw installation.
 On the Scarlett, the Walbro carb sticks up on a approx  70 degree angle centered laterally. Because of the triangulation requirements for a radial installation,clearances for the carb from the triangulate is an issue....but at the seven inch location not worrisome at all. There is even clearance to reach in and tune the carb....
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on March 15, 2016, 07:58:17 AM
Great explanation Bob.

 I'd like to add the 3VW weighs in at 72 lbs with OUT the starter, and just at 80 lbs WITH the starter, Not sure what the oil tank will weigh, probably a couple pounds. 
The prop IS heaver by 3 lbs, almost double a 1/2 VW prop. It has a larger diameter and more chord due to power made at low rpm, this equates to MORE thrust= better climb performance. Hopefully in a short time we will have performance data for everyone.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?/ Walbro carburetor
Post by: Dan_ on March 15, 2016, 08:47:52 AM
If I am not mistaken, Walbro carbuetors do not use a float bowl, so should be able to be oriented in any direction.  

You could ask Verner if it can be rotated to clear the tubing...
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: scottiniowa on March 16, 2016, 05:36:00 AM
Really been enjoying the progress on the motor Frank

Does that starter really weigh 8#'s   as a B & C starter for 180 hp weighs in at 7.7 or 7.4#  Just wondering out loud.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: PropMan on March 16, 2016, 06:32:58 AM
Scott, It's actually a starter assembly for the 3VW. the 8 lbs includes: starter, starter ring, a mounting bracket, larger(not much) alternator, probably a few other small parts I'm not thinking of. Not sure what the individual parts weigh, hope not to remove them for a while.
Title: Re: 3 cylinder anyone?
Post by: Dave Stroud on May 07, 2017, 04:04:46 PM
It seems about a year has passed since no comment on this topic. Any updates or did it go to another
thread elsewhere ? Thanks...
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