Eagler's Nest
Airframes => Single Seaters => XL => Topic started by: Flyguyeddy on September 26, 2017, 10:09:30 AM
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Ive been trying to find examples of people doing this but i keep coming up empty handed.
Has anyone used straight-from-the-plans minimax wings for their legal eagle? I ask this because i am interested in a possible airbike style aileron setup. Pushrods for aileron and elevator, with cable rudder only.
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I also like the idea of pushrod ailerons. Pushrod elevator is a given for me. I have gone through the effort to design a torque tube specification. A lot of work went into it. Trying to get the lightest weight with longevity. That was before the cabin eagle was designed. Probably be wise to purchase a set to see how Leonard worked his out. I was looking at adding one more bay of aileron but not the whole trailing edge. That was actually done to reduce the weight of the tube (shorter) more than any concern of aileron authority. The idea, along with some other design tweaks, was to make disassembly and trailering easier. I am not a fan of folding wings.
I have not downloaded the drawings of the minimax wings. Which model are you looking at?
I have never heard of anyone doing it.
Screwing around with a primary control is not anything I take lightly. Can't really say I have a warm fuzzy feeling about it.
Tom XL-7
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i have all of the minimax drawings. i already have premade LEXL ribs but i was looking into doing full length aileron. a few people have done pushrod control on the ailerons of minimaxes, and the airbike comes with them standard.
i guess i could get the drawings of the cabin eagle and see how The Boss did it on that.
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The cabin eagle has a partial aileron with a torque tube. Not sure of material or how it is actuated.
The full span would certainly eliminate the torque tube, Pushrod actuation is straightforward.
I wonder about any adverse effect from the full span ailerons. The outboard section would be most effective, so I wonder if the rest just adds drag.
Possibly increase in adverse yaw.
Tom XL-7
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A torque tube to a half span aileron could be an alternative to this. Bear in mind i have not read of any adverse yaw issues with the mini max. I shall go looking now.
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Apparently the mini max does suffer from adverse yaw, but if the airbike style pushrod setup is used, it has differential throw built into it.
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Good drawing,
I like the optional electric flap motor that drops the entire flaperon mixer.
I guess if you are going to have those big barn doors hanging on the back of your wing you may as well use them.
You are making a case for a second set of wings.
Thanks
Tom XL-7
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I doubt i would use the flaps, personally. Theyd have to be mechanical anyway and everyone ive heard of (at least on the minimax) claim that more than 10* of flaps causes a pretty severe loss of altitude and a nose down attitude.
Probably just use this setup. Maybe make some torque tubes to half span ailerons. Either way i want pushrod control.
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I hear that. I was wondering how the flight reports were for that option. I figured it would either fall out of the sky or fly so slow you could step out of the plane before it landed.
I have seen that flaperon system on a full-size STOL. It had separate flaps but lowered both ailerons as the flaps were applied.
The advantage of your second picture with the actuating horn forward of the hinge is there is no need to reverse the throw from the initial torque tube movement.
The first picture used an idler. Another option would be to cross the pushrods. Don't even like the sound of it. Just makes for more travel required in your ball joint bearings. You're twisting it two ways at once.
The idler adds more weight but allows more room. Being my push for any changes was to speed up (simplify) assembly for a trailer queen, I also like the idea of a center section tank attached to the fuselage. I like everything about it but the fuel directly overhead. Like having it 15 inches away would be some big bonus.
I live under an enormous controlled airspace. It would be a good challenge to fly around it. probably a 200 plus mile journey. So if you want to fly on the north side, then takeoff there. etc.
Tom XL-7
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Id LOVE to have a good 5 gal tank right in between the wings. Not sure how id go about having one tho.
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Hi Tom
I like the flaperon idea too, Also push pull control tubes, looking at 3/8 inside of 1/2 pex tubing. I know, I know comes down to weight...
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Perhaps a fuel strategy like this?
https://youtu.be/cw-WRTf9LqY?t=4m1s
I'm following this thread with interest. I'm not grasping why you'd want full ailerons, but I completely get why you would want push rods.
Also, Tom, why not a folding wing versus a disassembly strategy? How fast would you be able to disassemble? (minutes, not hours, I hope).
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... pex tubing is 1/2 fits inside of 5/8
full ailerons w/flaperon tranny
more soon
Thx
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So this thread has separated into a few so this answer has a few lines of thought in it.
Folding wings- I used to believe folding wings were mandatory. I had a conversation with the Heinz (spelling?) brothers of Zenith Aviation at Oshkosh 2011. The 750 STOL was new and we were discussing it. I asked why no folding wings like the 701. The answer was it is not worth the complexity. And further if the brothers went about trailering these two aircraft they believed the 750 would be secure in its trailer before the 701. It was easier to disassemble than to fold. Remember when those wings fold they must be supported and secured-to what? Folding flat or double hinge and fold with wing chord vertical?
I have decided on disassembly. thus center tank either J-3 type in front fuselage or center wing tank overhead. That's a fuel line that doesn't have to come apart.
Don't really think this aircraft needs flaperons.
My experience with pex is a coil of red or blue water line that doesn't lend itself to straight sticks-where am I missing something .
Why not use alum. tube?
TOM XL-7
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WE can buy Pex at the plumbing suppl store in 20' sticks and the material holds up to several types of lubricants However, Pex wont last,UV and infrared light changes it to brittle plastic poo. Good old fashioned swaging best for the Eagle, The Zenith is a entire different animal, (60K range).
I'll drop out of the flaperon forum, but still curious and watching the full length aileron talk here, If we could attach an aluminum tube on the inboard end of aileron, then control horn close to fuselage.
Thank you Tom
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Yes would like torque tubes for aileron control with pushrods in center. Eliminates the cables on struts. Have done the engineering however I want an easy way to disassemble for inspection. Messing with primary controls not to be taken lightly.
Tom XL-7
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Im visiting taylorcraft forum today, i help my A&P friend with wing rebuild some years ago starting with the new birch Spar, complte R&R. (plane had tip strike)
the image is example not mine.
http://vb.taylorcraft.org/showthread.php?11825-Right-wing-re-build-finished-quick-question
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I keep these pictures in my back pocket.
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simple things that control the way the bird goes up and down.
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Yes would like torque tubes for aileron control with pushrods in center. Eliminates the cables on struts. Have done the engineering however I want an easy way to disassemble for inspection. Messing with primary controls not to be taken lightly.
Tom XL-7
Tom,
on the XL, you would have the aileron with the tube through it, using delron bushings for NO wear- so both ends visible so to speak. --so no disassemble there
The connecting rods/horns would be exposed behind your seat center,-- so no disassemble there
Everything to stick would be in the open so nothing hid there either
what are you thinking might be hidden?
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If you go by the plans for the cabin eagle or at least all the pictures available, the torque tube terminates at the inner aileron root, where it bolts to the root aileron rib. Access panels could be installed where the support bushings go.
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I was planning on ending the torque tube at the inboard end of the aileron for weight. I would like it removable for inspection
I just have not thought the details thru. Regardless everything to go stock would be in the original build including pulley mounts on the fuselage.
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I wonder if an aluminum torque tube would be sufficient instead of the chromo tube called for in the CE plans.
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The only real issue i see with the airbike style pushrod setup is the seat belt may interfere with them. That, and youd have to use a bellcrank to change motion on them