Eagler's Nest

Engines => 3 cylinder Radial => Topic started by: jrbirdman47 on December 04, 2022, 09:42:08 AM

Title: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 04, 2022, 09:42:08 AM

Looking for propeller information for the Verner/ LEXL build. With a bunch of these already out there flying I'm sure you've come up with a good fit for the LEXL and can let me know the proper length, pitch, and possibly maker.

Thanks!  Rick

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 06, 2022, 02:59:40 PM

I've found a note within previous posts that refer to a 67 X 30 prop. Would a propeller maker know the Verner hub configuration to be able to make a propeller? I expect the engine to be here in 3 weeks and need to get started on a propeller.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Dan_ on December 08, 2022, 06:48:23 AM

Rick,
You may want to get in touch with Performance Propellers (https://performancepropeller.com/pricing/)...  Frank retired and sold the business I understand but they apparently still sell the prop.

Contact Details

 
Our Location 
Yorkville, IL 60560, USA 
 
Call Us 
630-551-8733 
 
Our Email 
flyperfprops@gmail.com
​

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 08, 2022, 08:05:15 AM

I had Ed Sterba make a prop for mine. From memory.. he said it was the same as VW. He's retired, now.. but I can get the dimensions from my prop if you want.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 08, 2022, 03:45:11 PM

Thanks guys, I'll look into these.
Chuck, are you sure the dimensions would be the same as for the VW? Seems like a 1000 rpm difference would require a different length/ pitch prop.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 08, 2022, 04:24:47 PM

Oh, no no.. I thought you were wanting the bolt circle for mounting. From memory, it's 67" I just told Ed the probable cruise speed, rpm, and he made it.
You said:

Quote

Would a propeller maker know the Verner hub configuration to be able to make a propeller?

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 09, 2022, 03:29:06 AM

::)  Oh. Sorry about that! That makes more sense.

And yes, if it's not too much trouble, your dimensions would be nice too.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Tom H on December 10, 2022, 11:58:53 AM

JRbirdman, we have a flying LE with Verner 3VW (Treehugger).  You ask about a prop for the LEXL, but maybe this info for the LE will help.

Frank Johnson, then-owner of Performance Propellers worked with us to dial in a prop back in 2018.  I tried to decipher my notes as best as I could:

We started out with a 62 dia x 38 pitch - it flew, not very good climb, which is what we were looking for.  Modified by Frank to 62 x 36.  Still did not like it.

Then put on a 67 x 38.  We did not fly it because it did not accelerate quickly enough to flying speed for the airstrip.

The 67 x 38 was modified by Frank to a 67 x 34.  It static pulled 180 lbs (be aware that static does not necessarily translate to flying performance).  I don't think we flew it.  We cut off 2" of diameter to get 65 x 34, got 170 lbs static pull.  Flew it, climb was about 275 ft/min, best so far.  We flew this prop at Oshkosh in 2018. 

I have a note that says that Les Homan was testing a 67 x 30 prop that Frank made.  Don't know what he ended up with.

Frank made us a 67 x 32, which is flying on the airplane now, and seems like a good compromise.  From notes, climb is around 250 - 300 fpm. 

We were surprised when we heard that Frank sold the business to the gentleman in Illinois, but he said that he has all the info, so should be able to make a good prop for you.

Hope this helps.
Tom H

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 10, 2022, 03:02:12 PM

Ed built a 67-36 for me. I'll let you know about static rpm next spring.  :) I'll clip the tips if that doesn't work. These are experimental, after all..

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 10, 2022, 04:42:46 PM

Thanks so much for the info, guys.
Performance is quoting 14 to 18 months to build one.
Ouch.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 11, 2022, 06:01:56 AM

Have you looked at Warp Drive? Adjustable pitch sounds like it might be a good thing..

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 11, 2022, 05:57:27 PM

I haven't, Chuck. But I will now!

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 14, 2022, 12:58:12 PM

Mr. Birdman, I took the Verner off the engine stand today, so I can give you dimensions.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/large/1151dc013676cae7/20221214_151437.jpg)
Prop bolts are M8 on a 4 inch bolt circle.
Drive lugs are .509" dia. which is just under 13mm.
Depth of drive lugs are .455" which is just under 12mm.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 14, 2022, 04:53:20 PM

Thanks, Chuck. I spoke with Warp Drive, they have a 10 to 13 week lead time. Performance was 14 to 18 months. O
I ordered a 66 inch version. I don't know if anyone else has used the WD prop on a Verner. I wonder about the composite blade's kinetic characteristics vs. a wood propeller. (twisting, flexing, etc) I guess I'll find out.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 14, 2022, 05:51:41 PM

I *think* Les has experimented with one. If my prop doesn't work out, I'll be looking at a warp drive too. So, how far are you along? Flying this summer?

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 15, 2022, 04:40:13 AM

I sure hope to be flying this summer! Been building a house, selling a house, and moving at present. Hangar is built. All that sorta puts a damper on building the XL. I expect the engine to arrive in 2 or 3 weeks and I'd like to get it on a stand and run it a while before mounting it. Wings and tail are built, fuselage is started. Toying with the possibility of composite landing gear. And then there's work..... :-\

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 15, 2022, 06:34:35 AM

The fuselage goes a lot faster than the wings, so you *could* make it. Covering doesn't take long, of course. It would take *me* forever to design a composite gear and lay it up. The gear is the weak point of the airplane, though, IMHO. That would be a considerable improvement if you can do it and keep it light.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 15, 2022, 09:37:22 AM

Oh, just another thought popped into my head. Be sure of the engine's rotation when ordering a prop. Mine turns clockwise viewed from the front. Earlier ones turned counter clockwise.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 15, 2022, 04:41:37 PM

Well that changes everything. I'll have to get in touch with Warp Drive pretty quick.

I looked at the videos of planes already flying with the
Verner to be sure that the rotation was CW. I guess it WAS at one time.

I built the wings for a clockwise rotating engine. (fuel tank in the right wing). Now I'm not sure what to do. I don't really want to rebuild the wings.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: DA Miller on December 15, 2022, 07:36:05 PM

Help! why do you put the fuel tank in the right wing if the propeller rotation is cw when viewed from the front?  Tks

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Dan_ on December 15, 2022, 07:57:46 PM

Clockerwise..?  Contrary clockerwise..?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPES_QXa0kE

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 16, 2022, 09:17:25 AM

Quote from: DA Miller on December 15, 2022, 07:36:05 PM

Help! why do you put the fuel tank in the right wing if the propeller rotation is cw when viewed from the front?  Tks

*I* put it there simply because I have a hand hold on the left to help me with getting in and out. Figured I'd probably do something stupid with a fuel line when doing that.  :)
Honestly, I don't think it will make much difference on the way it flys.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: jrbirdman47 on December 16, 2022, 05:31:41 PM

DA: The original Verner rotated CCW as viewed from the front, or CW as viewed from the seat. I planned on using a Verner and built accordingly, but then for some reason the newer versions rotate in the opposite direction.

That being said, the LEXL isn't really a high speed/ low drag sort of vehicle and by adding a tiny bit of wash in to the right wing I should be able to counteract the torque aerodynamically without a noticeable penalty in the otherwise blazing speeds I've come to expect. ::)

One thing's for certain; building the XL has been a series of problem solving exercises. This one, although unexpected, is no different I suppose.

I called Warp Drive with the change today, so I'm really glad Chuck mentioned the rotation in his post!

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: DA Miller on December 16, 2022, 06:18:59 PM

Dan thank you for your contribution.  As usual you have some very interesting and insightful viewpoints which you are all too quick to share with us.  Heh-Heh  :D
Chuck thanks for your very practical reasoning on right wing fuel tank.
Jrbirdman likewise thanks for your reply.  However, I must say that I understand Chuck's reasoning a little more than yours, but that's my problem not yours.  tks all

Title: Re: Verner 3VLA prop
Post by: Brock on December 05, 2024, 07:36:00 PM

This thread is over 2 years old.  I'm gunna knock off some dust.

So what are folks currently propping their Verner 3V with?  What specs and what mfr (preferably one who is still in business)?  I don't care to reinvent the wheel since I know you gurus have figured it all out by now.

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 06, 2024, 04:20:09 AM

Props seem to be more art than science.  :) Bullet's prop is a Sterba 67-36, and was perfect first try. Different manufacturers measure pitch differently, though. Ed retired shortly after building my prop, however. If I couldn't find a current manufactured prop that someone is using on their LE, I'd probably consider an adjustable pitch 67" diameter

Title: Re: Verner prop
Post by: Tom H on December 06, 2024, 05:59:56 AM

LEU Treehugger settled on a 67x32 prop from Performance Propellers.