Engine choice - Cabin Eagle

[MrG]

@Kiwi55

sorry have not answered back to an earlier question to much fun flying
MrG,
I appreciate the information, most helpful.
How does the VW perform at gross weight? Can you comfortably carry a full size passenger?
At 1050lb it does it hard 200/250 fpm climb, i don't have full size wings about 1 ft shorter over all, also from my home work with the vee
at the top of wing attach you loose a bit of lift to - if widened to like a half cab or cable eagle you would gain there too , we widened the
windscreen at the top to 10in wider,   5 each side and plane was lets say did not like it - lost a lot of lift - if i did another fuse would def be like
a cable eagle (more like the cub/kitfox ) really waiting to see what  rfeenstra is doing when he test flies - from home work ive done with a smart
mate, thats the way to go, could see 70 knt cruise


Also could I get the spec's of the propeller you are using?
Yes 72x24 i think or 68x24 but ask Frank would not change a thing, i beleive its the same as TomH too, it really works at 3180 to 3200rpm im indicating 65knts
i have seen 800 fpm cold day, one up 35 litres of fuel, i believe im running 80hp

[Tom H]

DE Stubby has a Great Plains 2180 engine w/ Performance Propeller 62 x 26 prop. 

For performance, see the link I included in my earlier post in this thread.

My advice to anyone building a DE - keep the weight to a minimum.  This is intended to be a bare-bones airplane.  Adding extra "goodies" like we did just takes away payload carrying ability.  But, at the other extreme, I don't know if anyone has ever built a DE as light as the prototype is reported to be (or even comes close!).

Another thought on climb improvement:  We have a LEU (Treehugger) that is being restored.  I wanted to put in a center section, which would increase wingspan by about 20-24".  I think this would improve lift.  But, the decision is to leave the wing attach alone, keep wingspan the same (mainly because it will have the new Verner 3 cyl engine).  I wonder if the DE Cabin types have a longer wingspan and if it helps climb and/or load lifting ability?

[PropMan]

A Verner 5VW would be perfect on the DE or CE.

65 HP @ 2300 rpm
120 lbs ( installed weight should be 135 lbs with prop)
starter
electronic ignition
8200.00 plus shipping and import fees

[MrG]

Sorry i thought my prop was bigger i have same size prop as TomH,  (Frank nailed the prop - Awesome)

@Tom with what i have played with i truly recon you would 100% gain lift buy making it a cabin, as you get to much disturbed airflow under the wings
 in the foot either side of the wing attach, and proved it in flight testing, found a photo of new screen when fitting , the plane was flown with this screen 
in and removed after flight - just making the top wider by 4 in each side made the plane nearly unflyable - top speed was 50 knts - old screen 65 knts

Even the nose were the screen its on the standard DE wing (under instead of over) would be causing so much drag, if you put your hand up there in flight 
on one side it yaws the plane by covering about 4in square from attach point between wing and top of screen. 

As Tom said add weight it slows down - I fly the plane with my daughter @950lb with mate next door we at @1050 - The difference between me empty
and daughter and slightly noticeable, but add that extra to get up around 1050, its like a 150 cessna on a 110 deg day

[ToddK]

Yamaha Genesis 4 with PSRU.  These are being used on Kolbs and Gyros.

Check out Mohawk Aero Craft.
There are some pretty good youtube videos. 

[MrG]

If you google that engine it really gets interesting

[wojtekseta]

If you didn't made decision yet:
The best from mentioned earlier engines is Rotax, but if you don't have / dont't want to spend a lot of money, you should look at 100HP BMW boxer with TakeOff redrive http://www.takeoff-ul.de/ . From their site: BOXER-flat engine  R  1,2  GS 75  kW+  at 7200  1/min,  including  directly  programmable  electronic fuel injection, starter, three-phase current alternator, twin ignition, oil cooler - 58 kg. Ready to fly with exhaust, engine mount, fuel pump, propeller, etc should weight about 80 kg - 178 lbs.
They sold hundreds, maybe more of the powerplants.
The engine is powerfull, smooth working, silent, economic. Will lasts for thousends of flying hours. In the USA was sold a lot bikes with this family of engines - you will have no problems with service and spare parts.

[scottiniowa]

If you didn't made decision yet:
The best from mentioned earlier engines is Rotax, but if you don't have / dont't want to spend a lot of money, you should look at 100HP BMW boxer with TakeOff redrive http://www.takeoff-ul.de/ . 

any chance you have a link to a english version, or is there a simple tab for english?

[wojtekseta]

Only few words and description of the options in English. You should look at tab "Produkte".
I have some old meterials in English, I can put them to download section.

[pramer]

I am a fan of the suzuki G13bb I have heard lots of good reports about them.  The only negative things you will hear about this engine is from people trying to make it better or using a inferior reduction unit.  Belt reduction unit are a good thing to stay away from 2 things belts lose more power than a geared reduction and then lots of stories of belts coming apart.  The trike community has been using this engine for many thousands of hours.  Mounted upright as stock as you can go they are bullet proof. Here is a vendor with a wealth of knowledge http://airtrikes.net/engines.shtml sells gear reductions and instructions on how to do your own or ready to go engines.  I purchased an engine to convert but not done yet.  MIne cost $1000 including shipping to my door all accesories including starter alternator.  Dry weight converted about 180#  100 honest horsepower.  to zero time this engine rebuilt long blocks are about 1800$.  AeroMomentum looks beautiful but they are modding the engine alot and lack a long track record.  The engine will stick above the firewall about 8 inches in the center,  you could build the firewall taller.  compared to the early Peitenpol with the ford model A engine and a radiator to look through this is nothing.  You would still have good forward view compared to a cub.

[ParQld]

A Verner 5VW would be perfect on the DE or CE.

65 HP @ 2300 rpm
120 lbs ( installed weight should be 135 lbs with prop)
starter
electronic ignition
8200.00 plus shipping and import fees

Hey Frank is that 8200.00 USD or EUR ?

cheers Paul

[cluttonfred]

Scott at Scalebirds.com is a dealer for Verner radial engines in the USA:  http://scalebirds.com/about-1  The 68 hp 5VW goes for $9,960 including a Walbro WB-37 carburetor, alternator, electric starter, ignition coils and cables plus an additional $960 for dual ignition.  I think it would suit a Double Eagle or Cabin Eagle very well, but the cost would be quite a bit more than something like a Hummel VW.

[scottiniowa]

 The 68 hp 5VW goes for $9,960 including a Walbro WB-37 carburetor, alternator, electric starter, ignition coils and cables plus an additional $960 for dual ignition.  

Quote from: PropMan on May 10, 2017, 06:58:48 AM

A Verner 5VW would be perfect on the DE or CE.

65 HP @ 2300 rpm
120 lbs ( installed weight should be 135 lbs with prop)
starter
electronic ignition
8200.00 plus shipping and import fees

21% difference give or take,    in prices-  Hope it not the same set up for the two different prices.