Full Size Rib Plans for jig

[Shanep1330]

Hi guys,
I'm sure this has been done already, but I am working on putting my rib jig together. I know my plans say to match the pages up for a full size rib, but I'd prefer a full sheet printout. Any suggestions?

[Dave Stroud]

Send Leonard $13 and he'll get a copy to you.

[Shanep1330]

Thanks Dave.

Just seems to me that since I bought my "complete" plans from him they should be included.

[rfeenstra]

I built mine using the photo copied plans taped together. these planes fly slowly, so minor errors probably won't affect flying characteristics.

[Tom XL-7]

A few years back I bought a "complete" set of drawings. The only thing complete about them was they contained 100% of the information needed to build the aircraft. To be honest I did spend a lot of time looking at the drawings.  I built a jig from the piece together plans and was pleased with it. Out of curiosity after years of hearing people having problems with doing it I got information off the old site of airfoil coordinates and drew one from scratch.  It sits right on the jig with minor deviations of a mm here and there. That could be my pencil work or the stick I used to produce a fair curve. My fine scissor work may have come into play as well. 
 I do realize your concern. I mean "what could be more important than the airfoil". Well many things in particular control and structure.
 I am not criticizing your effort to get it right. That is the correct attitude.  Make a copy of your rib drawings and give it a try just for fun.
Hints The critical item is the space between the spars. Your bottom is flat or close enough to it. Make a "fair curve out of the top. The diagonals will not match at all, but you know where they go. Between the verticals.

A general note about the drawings. They are simple sketches on letter paper but that saves on costs and copy costs.  To hire a draftsman to put the info on 24 X 36 paper will add to costs for all. The last time I copied  (copy shop not blueprint) large format drawings I paid about five bucks a page. Five bucks are what I paid for a complete set of copies. I work off of copies and keep the originals as a record. You still wouldn't have a full-size drawing of the ribs. 
  
Tom XL-7
 
  

[Shanep1330]

Thanks guys. I am one of those "gotta be exactly right down to the nth level" guys. Blame it on my passion for Engineering! Lol

Do the plans from Mr. Mulholland for the full size rib come printed as full size prints? Or another set of 8.5x11 pages?

I've pulled up the airfoil closest to the LEXL's listed on another conversation in this forum. I might just print those full size to have an "outline" to confirm proper alignment of the sheets I got with my original plans. I have access to a large format printer with sheets up to 48" wide and as long as I need the print to be. I just don't want to reinvent the wheel. Mr. Mulholland designed the LE to be easy to build and as simple as possible. So my fault may be in over analyzing all the minor details. Only time and feedback from you experienced guys will tell. Lol

~Shane

[Dave Stroud]

Giday, Shane. I was looking for the most info I could get while contemplating the rib jig and finally ordered the one piece drawing from Leonard. When I first received the plans, I was not aware that a one piece drawing was available and went ahead and ordered the supplementary plans from Scott in Iowa and proceeded using those for my jig. I couldn't seem to make Leonard's paste together rib drawings match up with the one piece copy that Scott sent and became curious, only to find out later that Scott's drawings show " another way to do it" for lack of a better description and his dimensions may or may not match those of Leonard. 

So we have "options". Several replied and said there's nothing to worry about, " it'll work just fine anyway" ,  " it's just not that critical" etc.  I just took another look at Leonard's one piece rib drawing and if it would be helpful, tonight I could take some accurate measurements and post them here for you. That would allow you to draw a straight base line and plant those piece by piece drawings right where they should be and have something to work from for your own full size drawing. Leonard's $13 drawing is one piece and it does match up nicely with his page by page drawings which tells me they didn't get skewed or altered by the copying process.

[Shanep1330]

Giday, Shane. I was looking for the most info I could get while contemplating the rib jig and finally ordered the one piece drawing from Leonard. When I first received the plans, I was not aware that a one piece drawing was available and went ahead and ordered the supplementary plans from Scott in Iowa and proceeded using those for my jig. I couldn't seem to make Leonard's paste together rib drawings match up with the one piece copy that Scott sent and became curious, only to find out later that Scott's drawings show " another way to do it" for lack of a better description and his dimensions may or may not match those of Leonard.

So we have "options". Several replied and said there's nothing to worry about, " it'll work just fine anyway" ,  " it's just not that critical" etc.  I just took another look at Leonard's one piece rib drawing and if it would be helpful, tonight I could take some accurate measurements and post them here for you. That would allow you to draw a straight base line and plant those piece by piece drawings right where they should be and have something to work from for your own full size drawing. Leonard's $13 drawing is one piece and it does match up nicely with his page by page drawings which tells me they didn't get skewed or altered by the copying process.

Thank you. I'll be ordering from Leonard this week.

[scottiniowa]

I have given out (printed word) and (verbal) the reason I offered the supplemental plans.   But will cover one more time as it seems that folks are taking a few things I have said and added in " what they think I perhaps meant"  I often find this a bit amusing, but none the less, that is the way it has always been.

So first-  I offered the supplemental plans, to save hours of head scratching... but have never said my way was the only way, Or that mine was more correct than the next way, Just offered a way to save a lot of time.

2nd- I have right on my full scale drawing, exactly where the center of gravity SHOULD be, and exactly where Boss's SHOULD be, using standard wing profile calculations.  These two locations are about 3/4" apart.  And I can show how 10 different body shapes such as long torsos, short torsos, tall folks, short folks, giant folks, skinny folks can all effect the CG a bit, and very often more than the 3/4" as listed above.

3rd- At the speed of the XL, the difference can't hardly be measured + or -   While I am not the person to provide the actual numbers for this bird or any other... If you wish to pursue this difference, I suspect that the project may never get done. But please do provide the details with each flight measured with the same base/motor, then switch the wings.  Would love to hear the results.

4th- I  provide these at nearly cost,  as I love to see projects completed and thought these would really help.   I have built 6 larger birds (not XL's) and based all of my building on knowing exactly what is going where based on CAD drawings.   It has been great fun and enjoyable to see other folks glide through a building process-   IT can be done.

5th-  While they may have changed now, back when I did these drawings, the 8.5 x 11" sheets did not match "exactly" to the full size drawings provided.  This caused several to ask me to do this full size drawing based on published  airfoil plot points that were darn close.  That is what I did.

Lastly-- this was posted-- by Tom XL-7

A few years back I bought a "complete" set of drawings. The only thing complete about them was they contained 100% of the information needed to build the aircraft. To be honest I did spend a lot of time looking at the drawings.  I built a jig from the piece together plans and was pleased with it. Out of curiosity after years of hearing people having problems with doing it I got information off the old site of airfoil coordinates and drew one from scratch.  It sits right on the jig with minor deviations of a mm here and there. That could be my pencil work or the stick I used to produce a fair curve. My fine scissor work may have come into play as well. 
    So true using any plans.
 I do realize your concern. I mean "what could be more important than the airfoil". Well many things in particular control and structure.
 I am not criticizing your effort to get it right. That is the correct attitude.  Make a copy of your rib drawings and give it a try just for fun.
Hints The critical item is the space between the spars. Your bottom is flat or close enough to it. Make a "fair curve out of the top. The diagonals will not match at all, but you know where they go. Between the verticals.
So true again- the underlined portion is spot on.

A general note about the drawings. They are simple sketches on letter paper but that saves on costs and copy costs.  To hire a draftsman to put the info on 24 X 36 paper will add to costs for all. The last time I copied  (copy shop not blueprint) large format drawings I paid about five bucks a page. Five bucks are what I paid for a complete set of copies. I work off of copies and keep the originals as a record. You still wouldn't have a full-size drawing of the ribs. 
I must commend Tom for his "get it done" wording.    We all have our different ways, but very often when 80-90% is spent working on the what-if details, that only leaves 10% building time.   If 4 hours per week is hoped for, that works out to about 24 minutes per week to work on the plane.  

  
Tom XL-7
 
I do wish you all the best! - Scott