engine weight

[boba65$#]

after much consternation about trying to make the VW powerplant "work" at my field elevation here in Idaho(4600ft), and still drag my 244lb carcass upwards.....I will go back to my original thought to use a spare A65 from my Chief . Also,yesterday I ordered  plans for the Double Eagle from Leonard. I have been building ribs/etc in the interim....SO.... my question is.....as a starting-point for true engine weight...HOW MUCH does your "firewall-forward" package weigh? 4 cyl VW values would be nice to start with....I'm guessing w/prop accessories,,etc 185 ish? In my case I'm pretty sure that firewall mods will be needed(shorten), Im still pushing numbers around on W&B scenarios, but would like some thumbnail weights as a "benchmark" of sorts.  ..Thanks for any help ya can give......bob

[Tom H]

Engine on DE Stubby is right around 200 lbs, which includes 2180 GPAS engine, alternator, starter, distributor, mag, oil cooler, filter, prop, several quarts of oil, carburetor, carb heat muff.  Don't think it includes engine mount, various control cables, TC's, wiring, etc.

[Dan_]

after much consternation about trying to make the VW powerplant "work" at my field elevation here in Idaho(4600ft), and still drag my 244lb carcass upwards.....I will go back to my original thought to use a spare A65 from my Chief . Also,yesterday I ordered  plans for the Double Eagle from Leonard. I have been building ribs/etc in the interim....SO.... my question is.....as a starting-point for true engine weight...HOW MUCH does your "firewall-forward" package weigh? 4 cyl VW values would be nice to start with....I'm guessing w/prop accessories,,etc 185 ish? In my case I'm pretty sure that firewall mods will be needed(shorten), Im still pushing numbers around on W&B scenarios, but would like some thumbnail weights as a "benchmark" of sorts.  ..Thanks for any help ya can give......bob

Contenintal A-65 weight on pg 6 here:  

VW aircraft conversion weight... take your pick: Here

This guy has forgotten more about the small Continental engines than most will ever know...

[boba65$#]

thank you tom h.....this is the weight that I'm kinda lookin for, not the "advertised" weight ....but something actually on an airframe that is flying. And thanks to you Dan, but.....I have an A65 sitting in my hangar....I know what it weighs, but you are dead-on about Harry...I met him about 30 years ago and bought some "hot-rod A65 parts from him. best A65 troubleshooter on the planet. My quest for actual Eagle vw weights(4cyl) give me a benchmark to work with....

[Dan_]

My quest for actual Eagle vw weights(4cyl) give me a benchmark to work with....

Keep us posted on what you wind up with...

What does your A-65 weigh..?

Tom's engine has the Deihl accessory case, starter, and alternator.

[boba65$#]

Dan....The A65 that I have is 206lbs(totally FW fwd,including hoses prop etc etc etyc,sans mount), and I still gotta hand prop this fool. Wonderful engines as you know, but parts are priced ABUSIVELY high, and I am really on-the fence about using it or going with a Suzuki g13bb(with gear PSRU and a good prop,puts out appx 530 ish  in thrust). I can still build it way cheaper than many options. I have a friend up here that built a one-off  LSA using this combo(567 mt weight), and in August still has lots of kick, even when we go to higher elevations(6500-7500ft). His engine dynoed at 117hp,on pump gas. I just feel like a chump when shopping for another crank for the A65, and a yellow-tagged one turned .20-.20 is still fetching $1200. Jury is still out, as I've got plenty to keep me busy when the DE plans arrive....but food-for thought. The VW is great, but just a little weak on grunt IMHO, at 4600-7500 ft elevation. Done properly, the VW is NOT a cheap alternative,especially if one goes with some type of PRSU for thrust advantage. Still crunching numbers, but,hey, I have plenty of time(I hope!) Thanks all for the input. I've been an A&P.IA for decades, and an airline guy....but this is kinda "new"(being NOT required to use certain "approved" stuff)

[Kiwi55]

Although it is well in the future, I am considering using a rotac 912 on my cabin eagle.
I dont have a weight for the complete FWF by the engine looks like it should come in about 30lbs less than a similarly equiped VW.
...Paul

[Dan_]

Done properly, the VW is NOT a cheap alternative,especially if one goes with some type of PRSU for thrust advantage. Still crunching numbers, but,hey, I have plenty of time(I hope!)

I have seen Gene Smith in action at Oshkosh with that VW and redrive.   He typically jumps it up to the 300 ft pattern altitude and pulls it way back.  

I have talked to them on the phone about their 2 cylinder redrive, and am sure they would give you their honest assessment on using the PSRU in high altitude ops.  They are the kind of people you would not hesitate to do business with.

My concern would be how long could you keep the power in before you cooked the heads.

You might be better off with a C-85 case and O-200 crank...  again not particularly cheap, and cg concerns to deal with.

A starter is not only convenient, but a safety issue as well.  

I had a plane with an O-200 without a starter, and was meticulous about propping it by myself.  

One day I was loaded with all my camping gear and stopped for fuel on the way to the big show.  

I had to dig in my ruck sack to get my phone or money or something, and the bag had hit the throttle during the shuffle --knocked it in about 1/2 inch I'd say...  

Long story short, I caught the plane by the lift strut and got the door open.    

An armstrong starter needs a piece of hose cut to length to place on that throttle before ever touching that prop...  

I looked in as I always did but thought the knob was all the way out, if I had been using the hose, I would have caught that.  

Needless to say it could have been a very very bad day.

[Dan_]

Although it is well in the future, I am considering using a rotax 912 on my cabin eagle.
I dont have a weight for the complete FWF by the engine looks like it should come in about 30lbs less than a similarly equiped VW.
...Paul

This one is very interesting... http://www.dmotorusa.com/  http://www.d-motor.eu/nl/home-1.htm  They have built Formula-1 race engines for years.  Hardly any moving parts..!

[PropMan]

How about one of these. Light weight (152 lbs dry) powerful 83 HP @ 2200 rpm, has a starter, generator and is Way Cool. Not cheap around 12000.00 dollars.

[Dan_]

How about one of these. Light weight (152 lbs dry) powerful 83 HP @ 2200 rpm, has a starter, generator and is Way Cool. Not cheap around 12000.00 dollars.

At one time the D-motor was $15000.00 and is listed for 17,500  now.

The 6 is still in testing I think, but should be in the low 20s, so Verner is still top dog, on price.

[boba65$#]

Dan.thanks again for all info. All of us that ever hand-propped has a story.....learned mine in the mid 1960's with my dads cub.........ever since then, all my planes have had a banner/tow hook stc'd......NOW, in my late 60's I aint gonna chase a damned plane on foot!! Powerplant issues are EVERYBODY's delimma. If I still lived back home in Houston, I would go with a VW and a redrive.....but, up here in Idaho.....Im surrounded by 7-8k peaks on 3 sides....Thats the main reason I sold the Chief)loved that little plane!!)Tried several props, but should've wrote the big-check and repowered with an 0-200. It's more cost effective (overall), now to not have to fret about Medicals,etc...the beauty of an experimental....

[Dan_]

Posted on YouTube 4 days ago...  It has that krasny sound !