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Author Topic: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035  (Read 7574 times)

Offline JonBlackmore Irish Eagle

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What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« on: April 16, 2020, 10:20:28 AM »
Guys I'm not used to Imperial and work in Metric I need to splice/join two lengths of 5/8  x .035 to make my longerons. There's no such thing as 19/32 OD 4130 so has anyone got a suggestion. I want to make the spice an internal one to keep the work clean looking. Thanks all in advance. JB. ???

Offline Terry Lundby

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2020, 10:37:11 AM »
You could file a piece of 9/16, .5625" to fit. Perhaps a metric chuck would be suitable to hold a 9/16 and you could turn it down to size if you don't have access to a lathe. Maybe a ½" would be close enough. Good luck with that crazy metric stuff!

Offline JonBlackmore Irish Eagle

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2020, 10:48:38 AM »
You could file a piece of 9/16, .5625" to fit. Perhaps a metric chuck would be suitable to hold a 9/16 and you could turn it down to size if you don't have access to a lathe. Maybe a ½" would be close enough. Good luck with that crazy metric stuff!
 
Phantomas thanks

Offline JonBlackmore Irish Eagle

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2020, 11:27:43 AM »
You could file a piece of 9/16, .5625" to fit. Perhaps a metric chuck would be suitable to hold a 9/16 and you could turn it down to size if you don't have access to a lathe. Maybe a ½" would be close enough. Good luck with that crazy metric stuff!

Could I turn down 5/8   .095   0.435 would that be a work around.

Offline Flyguyeddy

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2020, 11:36:05 AM »
You could splice it on the outside of the tube with a piece of .035 sheet formed around the tube

Offline JonBlackmore Irish Eagle

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2020, 11:51:49 AM »
Eddy yeah thanks its an option Id like to hide the join .

Offline Tom XL-7

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2020, 12:29:48 PM »
I understand the preference for inside sleeve. Do you or a friend have the ability to turn down 9/16. 3/4-058 works as an outside sleeve with 9 thousands slop. you will need some slop.  5/8-.028 works with 9/16 as an inside sleeve. I put that out there not as a recommendation but as just math. However many have talked about going to 0.028 on the 5/8 and 1/2 tube. Les Homan is making his third legal eagle this time he is going with .028. Perhaps John Bolding could chime in he has built more fuselages of this type than anyone. No one is going to want to tell you that it is OK unless he is a hired engineer. It would have to be a personal decision.  If I were in your position I would find a friendly shop or a hobbyist machinist. Lathes are not rare. Remember allow for slop. Perfect not likely to fit.

Offline JonBlackmore Irish Eagle

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2020, 12:47:04 PM »
I hear you, Tom, going to turn down a length(which is 5 times the diameter = 80mm ) of 5/8 x .095. And Guys thanks for all the feedback not many tube builders here on the Island to bounce ideas off so the feedback is a big help.
 

Offline JonBlackmore Irish Eagle

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2020, 03:30:02 AM »
Right bought a foot of 5/8 x 0.095 Aircraft Spruce Europe Germany. Going to take 0.035 off it which will leave me with 0.06000 see what happens. Thanks lads.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2020, 05:25:20 AM »
Right bought a foot of 5/8 x 0.095 Aircraft Spruce Europe Germany. Going to take 0.035 off it which will leave me with 0.06000 see what happens. Thanks lads.

Uhh,let's do the math here. 5/8"= .625" .035 wall thickness times 2= .070" .625 minus .070 = .555".
That would be an interference fit, and wouldn't go inside the 5/8 tube.
4313 says, "fit the inner tube of the same material with the same or greater wall thickness, and a maximum diameter difference of 1/16 of an inch."
So.
There are your options. Either turn down the thicker tubing you ordered to under .555" a total PITA..
or
just use a piece of half inch .035" tubing.  :)

Offline JohnB

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2020, 03:33:24 PM »
However many have talked about going to 0.028 on the 5/8 and 1/2 tube. Les Homan is making his third legal eagle this time he is going with .028. Perhaps John Bolding could chime in he has built more fuselages of this type than anyone. No one is going to want to tell you that it is OK unless he is a hired engineer.




The engineer that did the Double Eagle wing is a friend of mine, when he finished I asked him to do a back of the napkin workup on the Legal Eagle fuselage as I thought there might be some weight to be saved there.    Long story short he said $5K of engineering MIGHT save 5-6#.  Leonard went into rigor.    The XL fuselage as drawn weighs 33-34#, Les is reducing it by about a third. I wish him the best of luck.  I would put a chute on that one,  but that kinda defeats the purpose right.  That's why it's called Experimental.

As far as the splicing here's what I recommend to guys that forgot to buy 2 long tubes when they ordered their wood.  Figure out what lengths you need to put a BUTT splice BETWEEN the gear plates at Sta 3,  you are going to weld all around each tube to each plate so you really don't need either an inside or outside splice on the 5/8 longeron. Plus the vertical tube that comes off the longeron between the plates will saddle the longeron and be welded all around it as well.  The Cross tube does the same so we are talking a non-issue   John B

Offline JonBlackmore Irish Eagle

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2020, 04:35:55 AM »
"Leonard went into rigor." Spat out a mouthful of coffee reading this John. Laughing and choking at the same time. Jez, you give Lenord a terrible time.

Offline JonBlackmore Irish Eagle

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2020, 05:07:28 AM »
Uhh,let's do the math here. 5/8"= .625" .035 wall thickness times 2= .070" .625 minus .070 = .555".
That would be an interference fit, and wouldn't go inside the 5/8 tube.
4313 says, "fit the inner tube of the same material with the same or greater wall thickness, and a maximum diameter difference of 1/16 of an inch."
So.
There are your options. Either turn down the thicker tubing you ordered to under .555" a total PITA..
or
just use a piece of half inch .035" tubing.  :)
Chuck I don't know. Your probably right but the way I tackled it was .
To convert 0.095 inches to mm so I got 2.413 mm
Then converted 0.035 inches to mm so I got 0.889mm
subtracted 0.889 from 2.413 and got 1.524 mm
When I converted this back to inches I got 0.06000 inches
Are you saying I need further reduce the 0.06000 to 0.0555 to get a bit od free play in the fit.

I read your message again, I get yeah. J

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2020, 05:37:39 AM »
 
Quote
Figure out what lengths you need to put a BUTT splice BETWEEN the gear plates at Sta 3,  you are going to weld all around each tube to each plate so you really don't need either an inside or outside splice on the 5/8 longeron. Plus the vertical tube that comes off the longeron between the plates will saddle the longeron and be welded all around it as well.  The Cross tube does the same so we are talking a non-issue
I'll probably get into trouble for this.. after all, you are putting my materials kit together..  :grin: but I'm not buying a butt joint on the longeron..especially at one of the most heavily stressed areas of the airplane.
You'll not find 4313 saying this is an acceptable practice as far as I know. I'll look when I go out to the shop in a few minutes.

Offline JonBlackmore Irish Eagle

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Re: What OD 4130 will fit into 5/8 x .035
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2020, 07:13:16 AM »
However many have talked about going to 0.028 on the 5/8 and 1/2 tube. Les Homan is making his third legal eagle this time he is going with .028. Perhaps John Bolding could chime in he has built more fuselages of this type than anyone. No one is going to want to tell you that it is OK unless he is a hired engineer.




The engineer that did the Double Eagle wing is a friend of mine, when he finished I asked him to do a back of the napkin workup on the Legal Eagle fuselage as I thought there might be some weight to be saved there.    Long story short he said $5K of engineering MIGHT save 5-6#.  Leonard went into rigor.    The XL fuselage as drawn weighs 33-34#, Les is reducing it by about a third. I wish him the best of luck.  I would put a chute on that one,  but that kinda defeats the purpose right.  That's why it's called Experimental.

As far as the splicing here's what I recommend to guys that forgot to buy 2 long tubes when they ordered their wood.  Figure out what lengths you need to put a BUTT splice BETWEEN the gear plates at Sta 3,  you are going to weld all around each tube to each plate so you really don't need either an inside or outside splice on the 5/8 longeron. Plus the vertical tube that comes off the longeron between the plates will saddle the longeron and be welded all around it as well.  The Cross tube does the same so we are talking a non-issue  John B
J you got me looking and found Les

 

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