Range Maps

[leshoman]

You are getting there.  Winds can vary several miles an hour in just a few hundred feet of altitude and with terain features and prevailing winds sometime direction changes can occur as well. Also depends on where airports and fuel are some times going someplace requires stop in 30 miles because with winds that airport where you really want to go is at end of range. On way back may be able to fly entire distance in one easy hop.  We get to do a lot of landings at differant airports, great learning experience

[stevejahr]

Yup... As you are beginning to see Part 103 was never intended to be a cross country deal

5 gallons is really not much and 55 knots is really not very fast either.  Put them both together and as Les says you get to lots of landings.  It could be worse of course: running a 2-stroke you burn more fuel and need oil to mix in when you refuel.  One of the cool aspects of the 1/2 VW (apart from the sound) is normal gas for wide availability.

This is also why getting a Pilots license and building an Eagle in the experimental category can be attractive.  This way you can put a second 5 gallon tank in the other wing and double your range legally.  Or a tank in each wing plus a header tank for even more.  This also eliminates the 254 lb empty weight limit.

The Spaghetti Map eh?  Welcome to aviation where things are just a bit more complicated than driving down a paved road.  All good info on that map, you can look at it for hours and still find more 

[leshoman]

Regards cross countries my longest trip was about 185 miles. i believe Joe Spencer in Kansas City has flown to Oshkosh several times and back to KC.  It is possible but takes planning and experience

[stevejahr]

Agreed it is quite possible and entertaining to contemplate how to accomplish.

So Les, are you going to fly to Osh this year? 

[leshoman]

On long this like oshkosh i trailer it there and put it back together and fly, like last year, if you study the charts there are to many places across the west that are 150 miles or more to fuel. It may be possible to bake it east but coming back west plan on and average of 20 mph head wind out west.  I do plan on being in oshkosh again this year

[Keith]

So I found the FREE location for the updated VFR sectionals directly from the FAA - they have a GeoTIFF I can use as a basemap to overlay range on.
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/vfr/

I also sent them an email asking why they don't have a geoportal setup yet for GIS professionals. As a map-maker I see a sectional and see "all the layers turned on" in my head, so its very difficult for me to process out all the noise. If I had the core files I could produce a map that is far more straightforward for a particular use (maps should be interactive in general in my humble opinion). At least this will be a step forward in calculating out Legal Eagle range. I think my next project is to figure out how to calculate out head/tail winds for the ranges, that way I get a dynamic map that can be easily updated with weather information (and get away from the inaccurate circles) - I imagine it will probably look more teardrop shaped? ... hmm, this could take awhile LOL

Anywho, that FAA link is pretty nice to get officially updated sectionals for free online.

[Keith]

The shape is my next goal, I really want winds to be calculated out correctly, but there is only so much research into that I can do in a day LOL
As Les pointed out, heading East would be a greater distance and heading West would be shorter because of headwinds. But how to calculate that out in a GIS platform might take me awhile to figure out... I really do like that Skyvector site mentioned earlier, its weather layers are really cool.

[stevejahr]

You have probably taken your analysis about as far as is practical.

Let's say you impose weather data into your graphics here, what do you really have?  You have a false sense of security because your circle says you can fly to >here< when in reality you may or may not be able to.  The rub here is that we only have approximations of the wind speeds and directions in any of the weather sources.  Those approximations may be way off and you cannot know it until you fly it and measure it and track things.  Flight planning usually works best with 10-15 minute segments where you can check if your progress is different than expected/planned.  If you are slower then you can start considering if alternate plans are needed.

One large advantage of this 10-15 minute segment method is you always know pretty closely where you are which is always a good thing.

The 10-15 minute may be short... but you need enough data points in the total time to detect deviations and make adjustments.  And with the limited range of a LE I think this is where you end up.

So as Les suggested use a 1 hour range and draw your circle and find an airport with fuel in the general direction you are going hopefully toward a safe limit in your circle.  Plan to fly there as a flight leg.  Then start a new circle from there and repeat the stepping stone process until you get where you wanted to go.  NOW... should you get lucky and have a significant tail wind you can check your sectional and see if there is another airport just a bit further you can make it to.  Then while you refuel you can redo the rest of your flight planning based on the new segment starting point.

[Keith]

You have probably taken your analysis about as far as is practical.

Yeah, you're probably right. Yesterday I put together a 3D terrain map that I could interact with (using QGIS and the plugin QGIS2threejs), though other than planning routes through valleys, it isn't too helpful in figuring out ranges per-se.

[scottiniowa]

You have probably taken your analysis about as far as is practical.

Yeah, you're probably right. Yesterday I put together a 3D terrain map that I could interact with (using QGIS and the plugin QGIS2threejs), though other than planning routes through valleys, it isn't too helpful in figuring out ranges per-se.


You or anyone else hasn’t said a word, but you do know what the numbers on your charts like- 27, 34 and all the way up to 72  in the blocks- mean on your chart of your flying circle???….   totally HUGE factor in any low powered bird…  These again, are all factors….Don’t be discouraged about your circle getting so much smaller, it looks like you have some fantastic country to fly in.

[Keith]

You or anyone else hasn’t said a word, but you do know what the numbers on your charts like- 27, 34 and all the way up to 72  in the blocks- mean on your chart of your flying circle???….   totally HUGE factor in any low powered bird…  These again, are all factors….Don’t be discouraged about your circle getting so much smaller, it looks like you have some fantastic country to fly in.

Are you talking about the MEF?
I've been trying to familiarize myself with this symbol guide:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/aero_guide/

[scottiniowa]

I've been trying to familiarize myself with this symbol guide:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/aero_guide/

Certainly…  Your not talking about just normal flying around, when you have ranges so vast in size     5000 ft. difference’s within your circle. I would spend more time on calculation of your build than on wondering which mountain range your flying over.  Just saying’

Best of success

[Keith]

I would spend more time on calculation of your build than on wondering which mountain range your flying over.  Just saying’
Best of success

I left out the part where my father is a certified aircraft mechanic (now retired), he'll be overseeing the builds. So the build in general is not my concern, but we've planned trips to New Cuyama and Oceano and its important for us to know how far we can go (hence this topic)
I think Les's videos that mention range/fuel used was the catalyst for us to look into it, as Rio Vista to Oakdale wasn't that far - and Wikipedia made it sound like there was a 170 mile range (which sounds like a pipe dream now), I've submitted a change there to reflect the results from pilot feedback in this thread.

[leshoman]

You will be able to get there, almost anywhere in california but planning and short hops and not being in a hurry.  There is a waybut may not compare to larger aircraft

[Kevin N.]

Wow,  I'm dizzy from reading all this x country in a legal eagle stuff. I come to this site to stay away from over thinking flying. Airplane building is fun, get to gluing.