Zoro welding rod

[sonicapollo]

Anyone have any experience with zoro welding rod? Maybe for general use or practice? I'll probably get my stuff from airgas for the fuse.

[Tom H]

I've purchased some tools from Zoro.  No problem.  A quick look at their web page for welding rods show they sell Lincoln products.  Should be excellent products.

[sonicapollo]

http://www.zoro.com/i/G5073494/

http://www.zoro.com/i/G6142911/

Unless it is the lack of sleep again, I only see "value brand".  Zoro even sells through walmart online.  It all gives me the hebbie jebbies.  However, if the "value brand" = LE, I'd be a happy camper.

[scottiniowa]

I custom tig weld frames and other items, Chromoly and stainless, few other odds and ends.
some questions to ask yourself:

• Why buy 10 pounds when a bit over 2# will get you done. (unless your going to practice, practice)
• Why buy [font='Open Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif]Tensile Strength[/font][/color][font='Open Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif]: 52,000 psi rod [/font][/color]when you easily can get  70K and 80K that is RECOMMENDED Just google or youtube “custom TIG welding tips”  This applies to all gas welding as well. 
• Why try to save $10.00 when it could cost you a great deal more in poor weld strength
• When was the last time you heard R45 recommended? R60 maybe, but not 45
• Why buy fill rod that is not copper coated as it will rust easily and your going to have to take the time to “clean it anyway”

This always brings up the quote in my shop-       Watch what has failed and then DON’T do it! 

All that being said, can R45 work?   Sure it can… if you like to spend a lot of time, to prove them wrong, the rod is perfect!

Best of success!

[Bugsmasher]

When Tig welding - clean 4130n tubing....clean down to bright bare metal at least 1/2" from welded area and use ER70S-2.  A triple deoxidized mild steel rod will give quality welds on most grades of steel with a tensile strength of about 77,000 psi.  Keep the filler in a closed plastic tube with desiccant pack to keep clean and from oxidising. Always clean the filler rod and metal with MEK or Acetone before TIG welding.  I even wash the inside out. No oils or mill scale at all. The big three things that go wrong when TIG welding....
1- Wrong torch angle
2- Torch too far away from work
3- Filler rod not staying in argon gas shield causing it to ball up
But that is what has worked for me and many others for years.
Don't skimp on good filler and tungsten.....2% ceriated will work just fine without the thoriated radiation hazards. Grind on clean dedicated diamond wheel.
Link for good filler wire   http://www.weldersupply.com/P/735/ERS2MildSteelTigWire3     .035" filler for thin wall up to .050"
Practice padding beads on scrap....let it cool often....lots of learning on a small sheet of 4130...don't quench with anything.
Some nice thin leather driving gloves are cheap at the hardware stores... keep them clean as possible.

[Tom XL-7]

I was taught to weld using gas and have no concerns about the process. A good weld is good and a crappy weld is crappy regardless of technology.
 There are many high performnce homebuilts and all vintage aircraft flying used this outdated method. They are not falling out of the sky due to the tensil strength of the rod. In fact they have been in service so long many have corrosion or fatigue problems.  R-45 was recommended which was an incredible advance over the coat hangers that some used.  The last time it was recommended was a few minutes ago.
http://bcove.me/x0gcwqy2
Tig is the modern and superior technology but I suggest you use what you have, want or can afford. I have no reservations about welding up this ultralight
fuselage. If you need an engine mount you may consider farming out the final welding. One thing for sure, clean your rod  with a crocus cloth or a sandpaper that is not alum oxide. Use garnet paper on your steel and alum oxde on your alum. It's easy to do-have both in stock and not laying all oner the place. They are clearly diferent colors. The advice on cleaning the steel is a good one but avoid any scratches. While you are practicing put some samples in a vice and whack it with a hammer. You should never get close to that level of abuse unless you crash hard. See whether the steel gives up or the weld.  If the weld gives up it most likely be  inadequate pentration or undercutting an edge.
 The weldingsupply source in the last message will sell you R-45 for $1.99 per pound. R-60 is $4.79.  

Read this
http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleZenWelding.html
Good luck
 Tom XL-7

[Kevin N.]

Always get a chuckle out of "put it in a vice and hit it with a hammer" welding strength test.  That is a "feel good" test and not scientific in any way. But if that gives a builder a piece of mind I guess go for it.

[Dan_]

Always get a chuckle out of "put it in a vice and hit it with a hammer" welding strength test.  That is a "feel good" test and not scientific in any way. But if that gives a builder a piece of mind I guess go for it.

Bending test coupons is industry standard for certifying structural weldors.  

Xray is usually reserved to verify pressure welds in the field, but is also employed  as an expediency measure in weld tests where Xray techs are already on site.

http://www.irisndt.co.uk/bend-tests.php

If you choose tig, do not shy away from the vice and hammer test...  

Tig on thin wall high carbon tubing is an error likely process and will often break 3/4" from the bead...

Chromo was designed from the beginning (WWI) to be Oxy Acetylene welded.  

Other processes must utilize careful pre and post heat procedures to ward off crystalline properties (martinzite formation) and dangerous levels of stress left in the weld joint.

[Kevin N.]

Since you quoted my post please feel free to tell us your welding qualifications.

[scottiniowa]

  Always clean the filler rod and metal with MEK or Acetone before TIG welding.  I even wash the inside out. No oils or mill scale at all. The big three things that go wrong when TIG welding....
 

I always enjoy how welding rod threads turn into  “best practice for welding” threads  but so it goes.

  You guys can do what ever you want,  But if want to combine  MEK or Acetone in your welding process, 

•     Please step out side of your shop to do so. Or at least understand the KABOOM factor of both.
•     Understand the  EYE danger factor of MEK  
•     know that  1000’s of TIG or Gas welding shops don’t do this and get along fine, and in many levels safer to boot.
•   Know that two three swipes of scotch brite red will clean/shine up your fill rod just fine,  keeping in a dry tube is just good practice.
•    Anything highly flammable, and the aforementioned is-  Only takes one time/mistake.

 If you don’t have time to do it right the first time, when will  you have time to do it over?

[Tom XL-7]

Scott it gets to  the point you hesitate to say anything.  At any stage of the assembly there are multiple methods. For example: How do you cut your tube,your fishmouths? My point was simply that for this project gas welding has and can be suficient. Not so for one of your tundra crushing tailwheel assemblies, unless your just trying to make a point. Never say never . Someone will do it to prove you wrong for no other reason.
 With my small setup 1/8 inch is still in the range; much heavier and especially with large heat sinks it can become a chore.  I have done it and it was cold outside and I had to use all the heat my little torch could deliver.

 Older techniques do not cease to work just because they have been replaced. I know you get that,but I feel there are a lot of people that think only the latest and greatest is functional.

Would any challengers be willing to go 100 yards down field while a work up new loads for my muzzle loader. They could be my spotter. Except I would not let that happen.
I will use what I know and am comfortable with. If a don't have that fuzzy feeling I will acquire the necessary methods to get there.
Thanks for your input,always appreciated
The weather is breaking,
I hope to have something for show and tell soon.
Tom XL-7

[Tom H]

Sonicapollo, I checked Zoro again and it seems I missed the fact that the Lincoln rod is arc welding rod.  Not what you are looking for.  The filler rod all seems to be Value Brand.  Who knows what that is, or where it came from.  May be good for practice, but maybe not.  I have found that the various AWS numbers of rod do have different melting, flow, finish and appearance characteristics.

There is a lot of differing advice on selection of filler rod for 4130 tube fabrication.  However, I believe most all agree that 4130 filler rod (which is very expensive) is not the correct selection for welding 4130 tube, except in special situations, such as when a part is made that will be heat treated.

[sonicapollo]

Thanks tom for being one of the few people in this thread that actually read and understood what I was asking.

I was simply trying to figure out if zoro sold decent rod for general use and practice.

[Dan_]

I am short on time lately and may have missed something, (a lot, or everything)  in this thread but RG-45 and RG 60 is for Oxy/Acet...   The link was showing RG 45...

ER in the designation means it can be used as an "E"lectrode or "R"od.  In other words you can use it as a filler rod like in Tig or you can use it as the electrode as in Mig.   Some Tig processes use a spool of ER wire and still have the Tungsten for the electrode.  The Orbital process jumps readily to mind.  You could also cut a length off a spool of mig wire and use it as a filler rod in either tig or gas welding.


The R in RG means filler rod only, as in Tig or Oxy/Acet.  RG (Rod-Gas)  gas welds better.   RG45 is plenty strong for air frames.  The bead is many times thicker than the surrounding tubing...  


Your main goal is to deposit a sound bead in such a way as to preserve the malleability of the parent material.

[sonicapollo]

Despite being a tig wire by definition, er70 has been found suitable for oa welding 4130.  It has been used by many and is recommended by numerous sources, including tinmantech, etc.